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Hi,I've been looking at upgrading my Victor 1640 manual lathe to a Mori Seiki or clone (Whacheon/Webb/etc.) or a Cazeneuve. Caz is new to me but I am very intrigued by them. I would like to keep the lathe to about the size I have now, namely 16x40. The HBX360 is about a 14x30 with the HB 500's and up starting at about 20' swing. Is there a model in between the 360 and the 500? I could probably live with 14' but 30' between centers is too small, does the 360 come in longer flavors? Also, the features like variable speed and powered tailstock - are they only available on the HBX 360?
Or are they available on the bigger units as well.Lastly, any pointers on where to find these lathes for sale in the states? West Coast preferred. I see a 22' Caz on ebay but that's a bit big for me and doesn't appear to have any of the 'nifty' features.Much appreciated for any help here.Thanks,Chuck. Ha ha.I've been scouring the local sources for many months looking for the same thing as you. There was a Caz 500 in Oregon last year but it sold. There has been a Mori 20x80 on Seattle CL off-and-on. I know of a local big-ass Caz, 22x96 or so.No power tailstock on the bigger Caz's, or any others in that size range that I know of.
That is a neat trick that is pretty unique to the Caz 360. Variable speed is sen now and then, but again, the Caz 360 is in a league of its own in terms of neat tricks.There is a nice Grazi not far from me, but smaller, 14x60. It has a nice gap though that swings maybe 20' without having to remove a gap piece.There is a very nice Polamco 18x60 nearby.I haven't seen a single 17' Mori/Whacheon/Hwacheon/Webb in OR, WA, or BC.Regards.Mike. ChuckOf all Caz HBX 360 lathes discussed on forums and the few offered for sale, I have not seen any variant to the 32 inches or so between centers. In spite of the large bed width on the HBX, I consider it in the same class as the Hardinge HLV-H.
This lathe will thread over 500 possible pitch combinations but does so with delicate, dainty gearing. The HBX should not be used for general shop turning where interrupted cuts, scaly castings, and high volume chip removal is required. It is a tool room lathe best for prototypes, low volume complex operation high value turning, and well heeled gadgeteers who's wrist watches are of the grand complication variety.I would suggest 18 -20 inch swing with at least 40 centers, like my Romi Series II. (it's not for sale)jh. ChuckOf all Caz HBX 360 lathes discussed on forums and the few offered for sale, I have not seen any variant to the 32 inches or so between centers.
In spite of the large bed width on the HBX, I consider it in the same class as the Hardinge HLV-H. This lathe will thread over 500 possible pitch combinations but does so with delicate, dainty gearing. The HBX should not be used for general shop turning where interrupted cuts, scaly castings, and high volume chip removal is required. It is a tool room lathe best for prototypes, low volume complex operation high value turning, and well heeled gadgeteers who's wrist watches are of the grand complication variety.I would suggest 18 -20 inch swing with at least 40 centers, like my Romi Series II. (it's not for sale)jhSounds like the description of a Caz HBY590. But I suspect it has the same 'weak link' as the 360 - there are no half nuts contacting multiple threads of the leadscrew.
Instead, a worm gear with only one tooth contact is used. Texas,just teasing.looking at the dimensions of the gears in the apron between the power-entrance and the pinion connected to the rack and the fact that the spindle runs at relative high speed the torq transferred through the wormwheel is significant.furthermore I did an other contribution to my workshop.see picture.That looks a tad on the heavy side! Are you sure your shop floor is up to supporting that plus the HBX 360? Perhaps you should let me have the lathe and you keep the mill.Nice catch! TEX!!!these machines are all mine and it will stay that way!!My shop floor doesn't go any where, because I put more than enough Iron on top of it.Maybe I have to get rid of the Maho MC700H.
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I haven't decided yet.Peter,the HBX 360 and the HBY 590 came with only one centerdistance750 or 800 for the HBX, depending of the tailstock. The HBY had 1100 mm between the centre points.The sheet metal around the chuck are 2 different splash guards.the small one covering the chuck can slide back on top of the spindle stock to give access to the chuck. The other, big guard can be connected to the cross slide to avoid coolant spraying all around.Bertus. Tex,I know that by now, Tex.
No hard feelings.actually you see the front of the barn and stable. My workshop is inside and about 35 m2 large.By far not large enough to squize every machine inside.The walls and ceiling of the shop are heavy isolated and central heating inside, which gives a good condition to keep the machines in good condition.I'll post the other day some pic's of my scrap heap.BertusI believe there is a corollary to Murphy's law to cover such situations: something like 'all availabe space, no matter how large, will always be filled and there will never be room for another machine', (as it applies to workshops).
Hopefully, not a terribly lengthy project, as it is in better shape than expected. Plan is to JF USE it.Serial numbers when I can do. Meanwhile, this is the former Procyon Machine one discussed in several prior threads as Milacron was assessing it:It isn't so 'ugly' after all, as the grime is coming off easily enough. 'Before' shots were still on the dealer website. But I'm about to pause that cleaning effort and try to sort wiring and plumbing.Firster priority is to see if the motor is still OK.' The Plan' is to remove the Phase-A-Matic static converter, go back to factory wiring, and check it all out with meters.Second will be to run a stout SO cordset the 20 or so feet from my MEP-803a genset, put the gen set into 208 Wye 3-P mode, fire it up, dial the voltage up a tad. 220 - 225 vs 208, I should be fine.The motor runs TWO fluid pumps on its arse-shaft, those should not be run when dry.
Will be finding leaks the old-fashioned way, I am sure!No fear. Plumbing is waaay easier than a great many OTHER things it doesn't seem to be much in need of.More as that initial motor test takes its course.Last edited by Monarchist; at 11:21 PM. Hopefully, not a terribly lengthy project, as it is in better shape than expected.
Plan is to JF USE it.Serial numbers when I can do. Meanwhile, this is the former Procyon Machine one discussed in several prior threads as Milacron was assessing it:It isn't so 'ugly' after all, as the grime is coming off easily enough. 'Before' shots were still on the dealer website. But I'm about to pause that cleaning effort and try to sort wiring and plumbing.Firster priority is to see if the motor is still OK.' The Plan' is to remove the Phase-A-Matic static converter, go back to factory wiring, and check it all out with meters.Second will be to run a stout SO cordset the 20 or so feet from my MEP-803a genset, put the gen set into 208 Wye 3-P mode, fire it up, dial the voltage up a tad. 220 - 225 vs 208, I should be fine.The motor runs TWO fluid pumps on its arse-shaft, those should not be run when dry.
Will be finding leaks the old-fashioned way, I am sure!No fear. Plumbing is waaay easier than a great many OTHER things it doesn't seem to be much in need of.More as that initial motor test takes its course.Ya sure, you are far too busy posting here to have any time to work on your machines, I think you are just a colector of machine tools!
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Wiring play today. 'Local' schematic done up nicely on something durable that resembles sheet Vinyl, hung inside the cabinet cover door. I can get a decent tracing off that, have a display outfit make a new one in crisp black on white.Date on that, 20-12-63, is probably good for the lathe itself, at least as to Revision era. Lathe itself COULD be newer, but not by a great deal. It still has the all Cast-Iron base, and we are the better and happier for that.Fifty four years, max? I was probably standing in front of a War One Niles lathe that week.
Fewer total components in its entire massive being that an HBX has in its complex apron alone.Stripped the Phase-A-Matic static converter and all of its kludged wiring. Ordered a new Phase-Perfect PT-330 to replace it.Inbuilt master disconnect is inside the left rear electrical cabinet, operating handle is upper left end, behind the swing-away // lift OFF end cover 'door'. May as well have anchored the sumbich in FRANCE for all the handiness of access THAT offers.Simplest fix is to replace the square-drive handle with a bell-crank and linkage, remoted to the front of the machine, internally, operating handle external to the cover door, handy to the operator w/o need to open the panel.
Lockout tab in there somewhere as well.Found several broken bits of DIN-rail mount terminal blocks down in the electrical cabinet floor-originally, sump-now with the oily dirt. Sure enough, several others were damaged, above. Looked as if Bubba had casually raked the blocks with a camp axe, but DIN blocks are that way. Ya sure, you are far too busy posting here to have any time to work on your machines, I think you are just a colector of machine tools!Challenges in the bank, Old Son.
Before the last of 'em go off to make bean-tins.Time is coming I can't make the go-fetch road-trips as easily. Stocking up on good Old iron so I am ready to offset Alzheimers. Or wotever the excuse is to play with big old grubby toys.You'd have to figure I'm right serious about this one. Just ordered a brand-new 10 HP Phase-Perfect for it 'coz of all the dire predictions about my old blue one not having a reliable future. Wanted two 10 HP rather than a single 20, anyway. The still nearly-new 10 HP RPC is just for fallback & more easily portable low-pain-if-trashed testing. Move-in tomorrow.
Worked HARD for an OF diletante today. Move-in tomorrow. Worked HARD for an OF dilletante today. HBX went 'indoors' this morning. Wooden roadway worked a treat as to pushing back into the low-overhead space. Still on skids. A pair of garage trolley or 'floor' jacks will get the skates under her.
By the time I actually NEED a 'toe jack'. I'll no longer need a toe-jack. Etc.Spent the rest of the day dragging the Sheldon shaper and the Quartet mill outdoors for their final wash & brush up, installation of permanent skates, then back indoors for a bit of paint.Blessed with another Yorkshire brew to celebrate THIS day's end. Taddy Porter, this go. HBX went 'indoors' this morning. Wooden roadway worked a treat as to pushing back into the low-overhead space.
Still on skids. A pair of garage trolley or 'floor' jacks will get the skates under her. By the time I actually NEED a 'toe jack'. I'll no longer need a toe-jack. And then there is, as usual, Lybarger's Corollary (to Sod's law).Can't get the French gal where I want her until I get skates under the Alzmetall AB5/S AND the now re-turreted Quartet mill and move THEM. Quartet has the headroom and can be jacked from points other than its base. No sweat.Alzmetall has neither blessing.SECOND toe jack arrived yesterday to sort that barrier.
Minor progress. Lathe arrived with a 3-Jaw chuck, French made, 'Handy' brand, and the Cazeneuve 'OEM' item AFAICS.Aside from not being one to harbour 3-jaw chucks as a hard limit, it was 200 mm / 8'. The body JUST clears the front-edge of the cross. The jaws extend too far out before holding even 2' stock to do so. And/or hit the sliding cover at not a great deal larger stock.Small Tools, in Cleveland, O.
Had these two NOS, still in wrappers, 190 mm AKA 7 1/2' 4-Jaw. Swedish 'SCA' brand, model 608.First one looked so nice I bought the other one for 10EE use.SCA is now part of Fortiva AB. An email to Joakim Morck, and he sent back the current catalog page, plus the 'best guess' that their Iron-not-steel bodies are good to 1800 RPM. And perhaps a bit more.Good enough for whenever I actually NEED one that large.For higher RPM, I'll be utilizing 6', nominal 4-J ELSE collets, same as the 10EE. Which has an eerily similar RPM range as the HBX-360.so. Bill,I didn't see your normal barrage of posts and was curious why.looks like you are working something other than your gums, glad to see you doing stuff, getting dirty and hopefully having fun. Share some pictures, pictures are fun!Stuart'Dirty' doesn't begin to cover it.Pictures.
Of mounds of rather poor grades of common DIRT I actually do have, Stuart.but. Mostly so I have some record of where I put 'many' new sub-surface drains & such.Too weary by half at day's end to otherwise record or annotate it.
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